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They tell you that you MUST go to every single training to be successful because your distributors will “do whatever you do” so if you don’t go, neither will they.
PD Loans, Llc. charges $30 per training in advance and $40 at the door and they are held once a month. NR-TW charges $40 per month and $45 at the door and those are also held once a month so that right there is $70 – $85 per month because you are encouraged to go to both every month!!

And ya know what? These are all day trainings from 8:00 AM to 5:00 PM, so of course they serve you lunch right? Yup!! You get lunch alright. And guess what they feed you??? A 6-oz glass of a protein shake!!! That’s it!! So you get to hear the same information over and over again at every meeting each month for around $70 bucks and your reward is an empty, growling stomach and a half glass of protein drink!

That doesn’t even include the trainings my up line was holding every week. The fees were based on your placement in the marketing plan so if you were World Team (first placement in the marketing plan after Supervisor) it was around $50 per month and so on up the ladder to well over $300 or $400 per month for the higher ranking distributors and you can get guaranteed cash advance direct lenders at “NowGuaranteed”.

I guess I should be thankful that I was never able to get beyond a Supervisor (which costs around $3000) so I never had to pay anything to attend my up lines weekly meetings. Whoopie!!

But ya know, I sure did a tremendous amount of training at these events as did many other associates, and we never go a nickel!!!


But what about someone who barges in and writes 3 identical off topic messages as their first volley. Is that ornary, or rude. Yeah it does make me wonder, it makes me wonder about character the same way I would wonder about an individual who uses profanity in church. There is a right time and a right place and those that don’t understand that make me wonder.

It makes me wonder when someone disrespects a competitor (Amway) and plays up an organization (US Chamber of Commerce) and has never gone to the web site to check out the information that links the two together. That was a big faux pas and it goes again to credibility.

It makes me wonder when someone resorts to name calling an ad hominem attacks when by URL and post I prove that another one of the statements is false – that a trademark was abandoned.

It makes me wonder when someone who is not a lawyer rolls out a legal opinion that is refuted by the court and by other lawyers who specialize in the law surrounding MLM.

If the Anti-MLM group and the
Survivors can simply phone an Attorney General to prove information is false, it makes me wonder why didn’t someone from the pro side phone first to make sure they were telling the truth rather than repeating some upline’s rhetoric.

You see the problem is that when a proMLMr comes in here and spits out false information it makes everyone in the business look bad. That’s why I jump in. The research is only done once so when the next one shows up and tries the same stunt it’s like walking into a shotgun.

Ruth can tell you, I knew about the abandoned trademark months ago. If I could find it, so could have anyone else – so it makes me wonder why they didn’t bother to look.

I wonder about a guy that emails my home and states “I do not know why you are so hate filled. I suppose the world contains a little of everything. Anyway my fax number is: 707-***-**** If you really believe even half of what you charge send it to me, signed. I will forward your concerns”.

It makes me wonder why he wants the information when all that I said was either a matter of public record or could be confirmed through outside sources.

It makes me wonder why he just didn’t go research the information himself.

and I also wonder about an individual who has constantly pushed the line about promoting “his” opportunity is doing it once again.


Most MLMs are scams. Only a small fraction of MLMers make enough money to survive. Very few MLMers get a monthly commision check. Yet many hold on to the dream. Gambling has a bigger payoff than MLM.

Too much emphasis is placed on recruiting. The prime goal of any business is to move the product or service to the consumer. That is where the profits come from, not from recruiting. Imagine the insaneness of a traditional company having the goal of hiring as many employees as it can, with no intention of moving the product. Most MLMs end up being wholesale buyers clubs where its cheaper to join and buy wholesale.

Let’s get back to sales. That’s where the money comes from.


auto bill, or on automatic bill pay too. Utility bills are the hardest ones to deal with since they are so seasonal. So what I do is average out all of my utility bills for a 12 month running average to come up with the average bill. Then I add those averages to my fixed bills to come up with a average amount that I pay towards bills each month. I add a little extra for cushion, and that is what I have deposited into my “bill paying account”. I built a spreadsheet so that I can watch my projected balances months ahead of time. That way I can anticipate shortages way ahead of time and make small adjustments that are not really noticeable to my daily budgeting. And better, I really don’t have to worry about paying my bills since they are all on auto-pay, or bill pay. Once or twice a month I update billing amounts in the spreadsheet, and look to make sure that the balance never is projected to go below zero. Excess cash in the account is transferred monthly into savings for when there are going to be shortages.


so I guess if I had a bill that was the same each month, it would be easy. Sometimes I push a few bills to the end of the time period in case I have a cash crunch…I pay our rental property mortgage as late as possible since our renters usually pay late.


I setup my bills through my bill payment service that the bank provides and send out payments on the 1st and 16th of the month.

Since I can setup re-occurring payments, and my payments don’t change for a 12 month period for my utilities, mortgage, insurance etc, why not?

Or were you you thinking that I meant I was actually sending the money for 12 months at a time as a lump sum?


but they also tacked on an adjustment to bring us current because the monthly amount was too low. I use the past tense because I got off of it.

When we had the budget plan, I set up a recurring payment at our bank and then didn’t give it any more thought. The first time that adjustment came through, I didn’t notice it for two or three months, and the late fees really piled up. I caught it sooner each year after that, but still got socked for late fees and that adjustment — about $100 each time — right on the heels of the holidays.

I think it was the third time that I finally decided it wasn’t worth it, so we’re back to paying for the water we’ve used each month.


And vehicle fuel is the same every month? Even on “bill averaging” our electric/gas bill is never exactly the same because each month’s bill is based on an average of the previous 12 months.

What about murphy hits? Illness, sick animals, home repairs, vehicle repairs?


You may have misunderstood how I use Quicken. You said that you want to budget your credit union account. I actually use the “check register” as my budget. I pre-enter my groceries, fuel, kids stuff, and all other misc stuff you spend on Quicken for your credit union account. You already have a budget for those things on a spreadsheet, right? So did I. I would use the spreadsheet to plan out when I could buy certain items based on how much the paycheck was for the week. If there wasn’t enough left for the clothes or dry cleaning, I’d bump that amount out a week.

Now, instead of making those adjustments on my spreadsheet, I just enter them into Quicken as future purchases.

So in other words. I have Quicken pre-planned out to the end of February. I enter (automatically) all the normal items I have on my budget into the Quicken register, like dining, gas, clothing, etc. For example: hair cuts. I plan $50 every 30 days for hair. When someone gets a haircut, I subtract that from the $50, and put in the “real” transaction. That way I can see that I need $25 for gifts down at the end of the month or $30 for the vet when the postcard comes in the mail for his reminder checkup. I “budget” those flexible amounts right in the check register and change the amount to the “real” amount when it is actually spent.

It works great for me because I can plan out as far as I want and just keep the real total on a daily basis matching the bank. It’s a great way for me to also see future purchases on my phone, because it is already pre-populated out a whole month.

Does that make more sense?


Let me explain. Because my employer makes it possible for me to deposit into more than one bank account, I took advantage of that to more or less “automate” my bill paying processes. One bank account I keep a spreadsheet on and plug in all of my monthly bills into it for a running balance. I have the bill pay set up to pay bills automatically. So every pay check deposits a set amount into that account, and my bills are automatically paid from it. I run it as a “zero balance” account, so I watch the balance months ahead of time and make small adjustments once a month. I always pay my bills on time that way, and I really pretty much just set it and forget it. The bank probably hates it since they make no fees off me that way, but to bad. This is also the bank where I am paying off my debts from. I put myself on a three year plan to pay off debt, and that is the amount I pay each month to the credit cards until they are paid off. So far I have killed off three loans, and snowballed into the others. I had a set back last year though, but that will not happen this year.
Now, I know some don’t like this, but I do use a credit card to pay many of my bills to take advantage of the reward miles it offers. But I pay off that balance monthly, so no interest. That card probably hates me, but too bad, I pay no interest, nor fees. If they want to make money off of people, it is not going to be me.
I have a second bank account for my mortgage and emergency fund that I have a portion of my check deposited into, and that one is pretty much on automatic as well except for I have to manage the emergency funds.
The balance of the check is what we live off of and is deposited into my credit union account. That amount fluxuates from check to check, though I can figure to the penny what the minimum will be months ahead of time assuming I don’t call in sick or something. But this is the amount I need to budget for things like Groceries, personal items, clothing, and such. It is this one and only account that I need to set up a budget on that is based off the payday net into this account, and the budget starts over twice a month. THAT is where I have problems with programs like quicken. So many of these programs are based on monthly concepts. But I budget based off each paycheck and it works really well for us. I have flexibility built into my finances, but the budget is something really really try to sick to.


I am wondering what personal finance software everyone uses. I was using MS Money sunset, but got tired of the lack of flexibility and updates, ect. So I have been searching around for what to replace it with. I tried Mint since it is on line and free, but it does not work with my primary credit union for some reason, and since it does not, I would have to mannually enter all the transactions, which I would not mind, but Mint does not work well for that.so I gave up on Mint. After evaluating other programs, both free and otherwise, I broke down and bought Quicken. But even quicken does not do exactly what I want it to do when it comes to budgeting. So I am wondering what others use.

Here is what I am looking to do. I get paid twice a month. But I want to budget according to each paycheck, not a monthly budget. I have not found a program that does that for some reason. No program I have found is very flexible in developing a budget. I resorted to building a spreadsheet to do it, but that makes everything I do a double entry, making it time consuming. At one point I considered just building some in depth spreadsheets. But then I go back to manually entering every transaction again.

Ideally, I would love to get into building a good data base that is on line. But I don’t really have the time, and no one really has a good on line data base that is free to do that with. I mean wouldn’t it be great to build a DB template in google Docs or something similar that everyone could use that would be adaptable to individual needs for free for all, and still be able to download transactions from banks?

Thanks for the input. By the way, I do have a few worksheets that I will be uploading to the template area for Google docs. One will be an advanced version of the snowball that is interactive and keeps track of debt pay off progress.


I like having the control over the fats I put in it. I generally use all olive oil. I also like making variations of it, like a garlicky batch or a spicy batch. I use a regular food processor. It makes pretty amazing tuna or chicken salad.

Alton Brown did mayo on one episode of “Good Eats.” He said that they didn’t know why, but attributed it somehow to the acid in it, that if you leave it out at room temperature for four or five hours after you make it, it actually kills more bacteria than if you put it right in the fridge (the concern is over the raw egg). I’ve always done that, although I have to ignore the voice in my head telling me not to leave mayo out at room temperature!


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